What does everyone think about making ‘GIVEs’ anonymous? meaning CRE8RS can see the total votes they receive but they cannot see ‘how much’ and ‘whom’ they receive their GIVES from.
(edit: I realized I should clarify this. The allocations are only hidden during the Coordinape epoch. The allocations are revealed after the epoch is over.)
We have had more than 5 epochs now and the consistent issues I keep hearing about are:
’Revenge Votes’: This is when one cre8r changes their votes for another based solely on what that person allocates to them regardless of quality + amount of work done.
’Obligated Votes’: Some cre8rs feel obligated to give a certain amount based on personal reasons.
Let’s discuss.
Can anonymity solve some of the above issues? why or why not?
I like to see what people are giving to me and how they value my work. Also interesting to see how people allocate with the graph. I use it a lot. And overall i don’t see why we should make this secret if people have nothing to hide. This is the core of coordinape and dao
Did some members complain ? If not i there is no need to change it IMO.
Bee : the short answer is ‘yes’ we have had some issues with ‘revenge votes’& ‘obligated votes’.
Ok. So, then we should maybe speak about this and educate people on how to use it properly. Otherwise, nothing will change. If there is a revenge vote, it means someone didn’t vote properly at the beginning.
Obligated votes are also very bad. And it means people didn’t understand how coordinate works, And in this case it’s also good to see this kind of behaviour. Other members can try to remove this bias. It’s exactly why you added people who didn’t create content on epoch.
But first we should talk to those people. Otherwise, it will be a mess. Hiding everything is not the solution, IMO.
I’m using coordinape with several projects and none of them is hiding allocation. So if there is an issue in this dao, it’s coming from our side. So we should find the reason and try to fix it.
Personally against hiding too. If someone revenge vote on me, I’ll rather know it than not. If it happens too often, I might even dm that person to clarify what is happening. I think we can’t totally eliminate personal charisma (or lack of) in the voting. We’re just humans.
But even if one or two individuals didn’t vote as fairly as they should, as a whole these should cancel out. If they consistently get lower than expected, then perhaps the problem is with the content or the cre8r. Needs to market himself /herself better, explain the difficulties and the effort needed.
Although ‘revenge votes’ can’t happen if cre8rs have no way of knowing who has given them how many votes. Anonymity solves this problem.
I’d like to share my honest opinions on this particular topic from two different point of views: as a CRE8R and as a Project Manager.
As a CRE8R, I haven’t had any issue personally with either ‘revenge votes’ or ‘obligated votes’. Generally I am happy with the compensation I have received from all the projects I have participated in so far. One thing I do is that I try not to compare my share with anyone else in the circle. I simply look at the $ amount I receive and ask myself: am I happy to be paid this amount for the work that I do? Generally my answer has been ‘yes’ and that’s good enough for me. So as a CRE8R, I’m indifferent about whether or not the voting system is anonymous.
As a Project Manager, I’d have to say I prefer an anonymous voting system for our CRE8RS. Why? Simply because the ‘revenge vote’ + ‘obligate vote’ issues have been a consistent & recurring problem for us. On one hand, it’s great to have a fully open/transparent voting system because we’re a DAO; on the other, anonymity gives people the freedom to allocate their votes solely based on the quality of other people’s content without the worry of ‘revenge + obligated vote’ issues.
IMO I think we have a unique situation here compared to other DAOs. I can say this because I’m also part of the Yearn contributor circle. The biggest difference between Yearn and CRE8R Dao is that at Yearn there’s way less ‘competitiveness’. Their group is large enough that everyone is split up into different working group circles with many involved in multiple working group circles. People don’t tend to compare their compensation with the others because other contributors may be involved in other working circles that they know nothing about.
ps: i’m also part of circles with fewer members than here
Just to say that if there is a problem, the solution is not to hide everything. We should just target the issue and find a solution. If the DAO start to hide everything every time someone is not happy. It will be horrible. …
i see you point. But personally, i think it will be even worse if everything is hidden.
if A don’t like B.
-If it’s not hidden, B will see the allocation , and can raise the issue. Also, other members will see that A have a problem with B. So if they think it’s made on purpose for bad reason, they can give less to A and more to B to compensate.
If everything is hidden. Then A will give 0 GIVES to B. and nobody will know that, So then B is F*** and you can’t do anything
But again, if there are any issues between 2 or more members, it’s better to find a solution instead of changing a working system.
At the beginning , we made a new allocation, or someone changed the allocation manually if someone was not happy. And now some people want to change again ? To me , it’s seems that THOSE people are probably not using coordinape properly, and they are trying to hide some behaviours .
I am very pro blind or anonymous votes and believe it will solve a ton of problems due to reasons discussed ad nauseam. If put to snapshot vote, I will vote yes
If it’s anonymous vote during GIVING, but opened and transparent after GIVING, i’ll go with it. Seems like a good compromise to remove a constant issue for the admins, and also provide the transparency a DAO should have.
I read the whole thread and transparency is essential. I never check what I receive until I allocate my ones as fair as it can be.
My first round of gives wasn’t after an in depth allocation and I had a chat with a colleague about it and I am glad it happens as it changed my approach.
Everybody works differently and some are working more then others. The allocation shouldn’t be influenced by how much you got from X as his work may be much better so he/she will deserve more.
The idea of hidden for voting and visible after seams ok.
But if you show it after, you will only see how many GIVE you get in total… At least this is what I understood . …
So at the end it will be hidden , and you will never know how many GIVE i gave you for eg.
If you see the detail, then you can just “revenge vote” next epoch. So if this is a real problem it won’t change.
That’s why if you hide,… you hide and then there is no transparency , so it’s not a DAO…
I think someone mentioned this before, that cre8r dao is very competitive due to the nature of the objective. Limited pie, if I have more, you have less. This is a characteristic that other DAOs do not have. So while we are building up now, trying to experiment and see what works for us, it’s good to borrow ideas from existing DAOs that work. But shouldn’t let that limit us from forging our own path.
I suggest we be open minded and just try it out. A few tries, experiment, see what works and what doesn’t. Iterate and go again.
We are not like other DAOs. Of course not. If we are, why start another? We might as well join the existing one
I have spoken with the Coordinape team about ‘blind voting’ during the epochs. It isn’t a hard feature to implement but they’re in the midst of rolling out their products to the public so it may take a bit of time before the team can implement it.
When the ‘blind voting’ feature becomes available I will put up an official snapshot proposal for everyone to vote on.
you just hide it during the voting. I said seams ok (but not ideal)